In fact, Scouting's rules on the subject have not significantly changed since the late 1960s.
Knives may still be used by young people and adults during supervised camps and other outdoor activities.
Scouting
encourages young people to learn to respect knives, and use them
sensibly to learn outdoor skills such as fire lighting, shelter
building and backwoods cooking.
The Movement provides a safe supervised environment in which young
people can learn how and how not to use them - including how to avoid
injuring themselves and others.
The Scout Association does
not condone young people carrying knifes on their person as a matter of
course, unless there is a specific need for one.
Scouting recommends training in the handling of knives not only for
young people, but also for their adult leaders. Advice on the use of
knives in Scouting is updated periodically and most recently an article appeared in Scouting magazine, the publication that goes out every two months to Scouting's 100,000 adult members.
This
is part of regular advice and guidance offered to the Movement since
the wearing of a knife with uniform was discontinued in the late 1960s.
Over the years the advice we have offered is always based around two
key points:
i) We need to comply with the law of the land (so we remind people of the current legislation).
ii)
We remind people in which situations it is appropriate to teach young
people how to use knives safely and when it is not appropriate to use a
knife.
Scouting
provides opportunities to explore the outdoors to 400,000 boys and
girls across the UK, supported by 100,000 adult leaders, each of whom
benefits from a comprehensive adult training scheme.
A leading outdoors expert recently
commented on knives in Scouting: 'When we give knives to young people,
we tell them they are being entrusted and that responsibility is one of
the most important parts of their education.'
to get a personal take on the issue from UK Chief Commissioner Wayne
Bulpitt, who along with Chief Scout Bear Grylls leads and manages the
100,000 adult volunteers involved in Scouting across the UK.
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By Dan Weaver
on 09/09/2009 16:10 As usual, the press blow this out of all proportion. Why do they have to be so unreasonable? I'm absolutely appalled, and not for the first time either.
The most annoying thing is that we are largely powerless to do anything. This article and Wayne's blog, both by way of a response to this ridiculous mess, hit the nail on the end and do a good job of putting people right. However, I fear that these messages simply won't reach enough people to make a difference - through no fault of our own, but because people take what they read in the newspapers as fact. Of course, we should all be able to! Unfortunately, the reality is we can't always.
In fact, even some adult volunteers within Scouting have incorrectly been persuaded by the media that there is a ban on knives; quite understandably leading to a very negative reaction by those people. Of course, however, they have no reason to be worried because the media are wrong!
It annoys me as well that certain media outlets are still going on referring to us as "Boy Scouts" and making other similarly inaccurate comments. I'm appalled by the media because they too often show a complete lack of interest in accurate, properly researched, unbiased reporting. These latest articles have proved that, yet again.
Dan, a very annoyed Scouter from Derby
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By Colin Foster
on 09/09/2009 16:11 The next thing is the press will be telling us that British Bulldogs is banned!!!
If we teach our young people how to use knives safely & with respect, then they'll be far less likely to abuse them!
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By Alan Hopton
on 09/09/2009 16:11 What a relief. I wondered what the world had come to when I saw the inaccurate headlines on msn.co.
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By Charles Lyster
on 09/09/2009 16:12 I'm very relieved to see that the story was untrue; stabbings are not a knife problem but a behaviour problem. If knives were banned by law violent people could still attack others with screwdrivers, hammers, pencils and so on. The way to address these behavioural issues is to encourage mature behaviour and appropriate use of edge tools etc. as scouting has always done. The hysteria of the press and sometimes of the Government in dealing with violence by calling for limits on access to potential weapons treats the symptom, not the cause.
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By Marcus Coulson
on 12/09/2009 22:46 What ever are the press going to say NEXT?
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By Jon Woods
on 14/09/2009 17:32 I am very releived to hear that it has been mis-reported in the press: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6824181.ece
As a previous member of the Association it makes me very happy to know that the current young adult members will receive the same training and trust that I did when I passed through.
Let common sense prevail once more!
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By Bill Smith
on 14/09/2009 19:47 when our scouts go to camp etc all knives are handed to me by the parents and are all marked and are then issued out only when the occasion they are needed for training tuition or project usage when session is over they are handed in. At the end of camp the knives are handed over to the parents our troop have done this over the last 10 years to my knowledge
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By Skippy2
on 14/09/2009 21:33 I read the news articles and also the responses, I agree that the news often blows thing out of all proportion as was this case.
As our Troop is relatively new we have made them aware of the use of knives and the respect which they deserve. I myself carry a swiss card - it's extremely useful but I have a friend who has a small swiss army knife which she was given as a gift from her father and she carries this with her daily. Both these items have relatively small blades, but nevertheless if the intention was there, they could be used detrimentally.
We need to ensure our Scouts use their tools for the purpose for which they were intended and hopefully create a better world for everyone
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By Lyndsey
on 14/09/2009 21:54 I agree with the previous comments!
The media are responsible for so many inaccuracies in so many areas and Scouting is a prime example. If we listened to the media, especially the tabloids, they'd have us believe that we were still the Movement of the 1950s and all Dib Dib Dib, Dob Dob Dob.
As a Movement we have a responsibility to make ourselves known in the press as much as humanly possible for all of the positive things we achieve; no matter how small!
I always try to have a local press officer at all the events my Pack and I host and we have built up a great local reputation, all we need now is nationally to do the same!
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By Jim Elliott
on 14/09/2009 22:03 Why would any sensible adult believe the press rather than POR ?
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By Matt Robinson
on 15/09/2009 08:24 I agree with the fellow Scouters regarding media blow up, but do feel that, through observation, some adult members of our organisation tend not to adhere to legislation or common sense. Which in turn influences a blasé approach to knives at camp. Too many times I have witnessed a Scouting adult carrying a sheath knife on their belt, when the theme of a camp has been a games camp. Jumping back to a few years ago, we had camp inspections from the related District Team, to ensure camps where supervised and carried out with the Scouters best interest, perhaps on the shadow of the media interest, we could see these kind of inspections re introduced. I would hate for the media or a young Scouter to come across such behaviour
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By Stephen Cook
on 15/09/2009 08:43 I'm glad to hear that the Association is taking the correct line on this matter. It is not the knife that is dangerous it can only be the person that holds it that makes it dangerous. Teaching young people that a knife is a very useful tool and not a status symbol or weapon is the only way forward.
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By Tracey Clegg
on 15/09/2009 08:58 I am glad that the scouts are still allowed to use their knife as I feel they are less likely to use them as weapons later on in life as they have never been forbidden them. I have an thirteen year old girl in scouts and I feel it is good for her to learn how to use the knife correctly and also learning how to respect the knife.
Thanks
Tracey
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By Suzanne Prior
on 15/09/2009 10:21 Yet again we are seen as an easy target! Here's a new worthy Item, in my paid job I work with under fives with reccently diagnosed as having Autismn. I have just done a 24hr activity camp for Explorers and there was a lad there with Autism. He coped, according to definition of Autism he shouldn't! Lets get shouting about what we do provide for Yong People and educate these over paid no idea journalist who go for the scare factor as apose to the real facts! Oh yer and we will be teaching safe use of knife axe and saw again in two weeks time in my district explorer and scout camp. I also instruct in air rifle and archery.
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By "Rochi" - Bedfordshire
on 15/09/2009 11:15 Having been annoyed at the SA for this story, I'm very much relieved that it is incorrect! Long live the sensible use of knives as important Scout tools!
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By Denzil Rayworth
on 15/09/2009 11:32 I do hope Gilwell put this to the public surely they must have contcts is the media who will put our `proper side` forward. It seems the press as usual have nothing major to publish so what do they do ` Oh yes lets pick on Knife crime` and implicate the Scouts.
Well done other comments, I agree but thought British Bulldogs was a no no as it states the word `British` and is a full contact game? Never mind I am probably mistaken.. But PlEASE get it in the press we can`t be doing with any more damage ! Hopefully `Bear` can come up with something....
Denzil GSL Bolsover Derbyshire
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By Sarah Warren
on 15/09/2009 13:54 They'll be banning campfires next due to the fire risk....!
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By Paul Tozer
on 15/09/2009 14:52 What do you expect from the press? Good News is No News!
Should someone tell Colin that British Bulldog was banned years ago?
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By Joanne Taylor
on 15/09/2009 22:44 We have not taken any notice of any articles refering to a ban on Knives in scouting, as a group we have put together a knife safety programme, at the end of which the young person will get a certificate from us to say they have been trained in the safe and correct way to handle a knife and what to do should an injury occur during use. There is also a permission slip for parents to fill in, to say they understand and agree with what we have done. all in the spirit of scouting training and reward.
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By Alec Williams
on 15/09/2009 22:57 Having read the relevant article in Scouting magazine I can see why the press interpreted it the way they did. Although not factually incorrect, the way it explained the legislation was not balanced. I suspect many Scouters reading the article drew the same conclusions as the press.
A knife, unless specifically manufactured or adapted to cause harm, (flick-knifes and the like) is only a weapon if a person intends to do harm with it. Otherwise it is a useful and often essential tool which a Scout may legally possess in public place provided they have good reason to do so.
Furthermore, most Scout camp sites, not being public places, a scout could possess a knife regardless of good reason. This is when it is down to Scouters and parents to make sensible decisions based upon whether a knife is required for the relevant activity. Perhaps a follow up article on the circumstances under which Scouts can legally possess and use knifes safely as a tool might help restore the balance?
Please lets seize the opportunity to teach Scouts to respect and safely use a knife.
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By andy martin
on 16/09/2009 08:41 It's a sad world when a scout can't be shown how to take a sheave knife to a rabbit in a way to provide a meal whilst on scout camp. Still, all my 12 members were fully trained to skin rabbits on our summer camp and even my 10 year old daughter completed the task and enjoyed the thrill of the food chain. I presented all my scouts with a knife as a reward for there skill and would knock of points on next camp if they failed to have a knife ready to work... SAFELY! Long live commonsense.
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By M Bartsch
on 18/09/2009 11:04 I am glad almost all these posts show common sense about knives and outrage at the misinterpretation of Scouting in the general media.
However, there is rarely any smoke without fire and I can name at least two Scout campsites that I have had personal experiences with that have a blanket ban on all knives. In fact on one survival camp, the camp wardens told the leader involved that none of the Scouts nor the leader himself was allowed to have a knife in their posession. It is almost impossible to run a survival camp without the use of knives. Actually it's almost inpossible to run any camp without a knife, how else are we supposed to chop vegetables?
So it seems not everyone in the SA trusts Scouts with knives.
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By Steve Steele
on 20/09/2009 17:15 In the right environment and with good supervision giving the scouts the knowledge and responsibility to use knives properly and safely is a fantastic recognition of our trust as leaders in them. I totally agree with the final comment about "entrusting young people with knives being one of the most important parts of their education." Unfortunately, all young people have been stereotyped so whatever we try to do to break that stereotype won't find much credence with the press, they want kids drinking and causing havoc because it sells papers not acting responsibly and learning how to be better adults in the future who can give something back to society.
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By Bill Lehan
on 20/09/2009 20:05
Qoute Mr Bartsch
'In fact on one survival camp, the camp wardens told the leader involved that none of the Scouts nor the leader himself was allowed to have a knife in their possession'
My sympathies are with you Mr Bartsch. It's like going to an archery event but you have to leave your bows and arrows at home because somebody might get hurt.
Incidentally, I would not let any of my lads or children use a folding blade that cannot be locked. We have had incidents where the blade was being held nearly vertical to cut small holes in leather and the blade suddenly snapped shut on the fingers, causing a nasty, painful wound. We use only fixed blade knives. We also solved the broken hand-axe handle problem. We use machetes. A far more practical tool and almost indestructible.
Did I read in the paper that Health and Safety people had banned camp fires at an international jamboree in Ireland?
I think Baden-Powell should have a vote in all this stupidity.
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By Father Phil - Uckfield
on 22/09/2009 11:34 I agree the press usually get it wrong, inaccuracies in reporting, especially names, is very annoying for the scouts involved, but maybe we should try to be accurate and Lyndsey on 14/9 mentioned that we are not still in the 1950s with dib dib dib, dob dob dob. What she of course meant was dyb dyb dyb, dob dob dob which obviously stands for 'do your best' and 'do our best'and we were saying that well into the 1960s!
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By Bill Lehan
on 23/09/2009 19:22 I read the newspaper article too and from it understood that knives had been banned. I am glad they have not, for where else would boys and girls be trained to use a knife safely and responsibly. I do have my doubts about folding knives that do not lock. We have had two very nasty cases where the knife has closed down on little fingers causing deep and painful cuts. And in use, who wants a folding knife full of congealing rabbit blood. We training we use sharp, fixed blade kitchen knives to do a proper job in a sensible way.
We have also overcome another edged tool problem, that of hand axe handles breaking because the distance has been misjudged. We did away with hand axes and replaced them with machetes (gasp horror). They do all that a small axe can do and are virtually indestructible. Safety, and instructional training is, of course, first priority.
We have had no aggression, no mucking about and no accidents.
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By Keith Nixon, SL 1st Capel St Mary Scouts
on 25/09/2009 13:44 All my troop are trained in axe, saw and knife. they are trusted to use them correctly. We have a wood we call 'The bushcraft wood' wher we do all our field craft activities.
when we go to the wood the PLs and APLs are allowed to carry and use a Frosts Mora and the rest an Opinal no.6 or similar. We never have any problems.
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By Chris Burnell
on 27/09/2009 13:04 Despite all the outrage Scouting must adhere to the law of the land. Scouting has always moved forwards with current trends and changes, one reason why it is so strong after over 100 years.
To a great extent the place for knives in Scouting has changed over the years. A good deal of camp cooking is no longer done over open wood fires and much of the wood provided on Scout campsites will not benefit from the use of either a knife or axe. Far better to use the right type of saw in the hands of someone trained to use.
The current nation-wide enthusiasm for cookery requires clean and sharp knives but surely these should be confined to food preparation areas for hygienic reasons.
The ever popular survival camping skills does at times require the use of both axe and knife. Once again this calls for correct training in the use of knives and axes. A total ban on their use will make it virtually impossible to teach and practise survival skills. However knives should be seen as tools for the purpose and no longer be carried as personal equipment.
It is a fact that knife culture, its associated crimes and its tragic consequences have increased greatly in recent years. Scouting must do its bit to help and educate young people as it always has in the past.
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By Larrya
on 13/10/2009 00:50 After doing a knife evening, I was asked to recommend a knife for Scout use, hence my viewing of the article.
As a rural Troop, most of our camping is green field (or wood!)and Scouts are expected to bring knives.
On the District Backwoods camp last week, opinel No8 and a sheath knife were used for rabbit and partridge preparation as well as a bit of tinder preparation! Scout of the camp was given an Opinel as his prize!
On the troop camps the Scouts use their knives for camp gadget making, stick whittling, tinder prep as well as food prep. On longer camps knives are handed in & out as the activity demands and they usually come to camp via a parent.
I prefer lock knives to penknives as they are much safer for fingers. With the training given to them, we dont have 'incidents' with knives.
Knives still have an important and valid part to play in modern Scouting. By providing the correct training and guidance we can ensure the YPs in our care are educated and are responsible use of all of the hazardous tools they use. ie Air rifles, shotguns, Bows as well as axes & saws!
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By non UK Scouter
on 31/10/2009 01:34 Fellow Scouts and Scouters, far be it for me to advise the UK scouts on how to run your program, but I am shocked by what I have read. What happened to "Be Prepared"? Does that basic scouting philosophy no exist in the UK? To read that "The Scout Association does not condone young people carrying knifes on their person as a matter of course, unless there is a specific need for one" flys in the face of logic and common sense. When do one ever have pre-knowledge that a specific need is going to present itself?
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By fahren
on 05/11/2009 19:52 we cannot stop using knives, are they fools
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By Bill Lehan
on 12/11/2009 09:10 Spot on 'Non UK Scouter' About the BE PREPARED bit, you said 'When does one ever have pre-kmowledge that a specific need is going to present itself?
I was at the scene of a car crash and because i had a knife I was able to cut the driver out of her seat belt. Two minutes later the car caught fire. Lucky woman!
It would have been a bit ironic if she was one of these PC people and I did not have my penknife with me.
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Several incorrect stories have appeared in the media this week reporting a knife ban in Scouting. 